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	<title>iCanuck &#187; julia duin</title>
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	<link>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com</link>
	<description>closing the gap between Jesus Christ and the church</description>
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		<title>10 Myths About Church Quitters</title>
		<link>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/10-myths-about-church-quitters</link>
		<comments>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/10-myths-about-church-quitters#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 11:48:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>iCanuck</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quitting church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[alan jamieson]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[churchless faith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[julia duin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leaving church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1126</guid>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><strong>Despite the almost mantra-like              status of the statement &#8220;people are leaving the              church&#8221; there still appears to be little understanding              about who is leaving, when they leave, why they leave,              and what happens to them and their faith after they              leave. Of course everyone has their own view on these              issues but few, especially our church leaders, have              taken the time to sit down and talk with an actual              leaver or two.</strong></p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>It is much easier dealing with stereotypes than actual         people, even if the stereotypes don&#8217;t help us understand         what is really going on. For those interested in moving         beyond the stereotypes and asking: &#8220;Who are these people         who are leaving our churches?&#8221; an examination of some myths         about church leavers may prove helpful.</p>
<p style="text-align: right;">Alan Jamieson</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I first came across Alan Jamieson&#8217;s work through <a href="http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=314">Julia Duin&#8217;s book, Quitting Church</a>.</p>
<p><script src="http://ws.amazon.ca/widgets/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&amp;MarketPlace=CA&amp;ID=V20070822/CA/irrellife-20/8001/376374cb-42f1-48f9-81fc-b7975c2c9446" type="text/javascript"></script> <noscript>&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;A HREF=&#8221;http://ws.amazon.ca/widgets/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;MarketPlace=CA&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;ID=V20070822%2FCA%2Firrellife-20%2F8001%2F376374cb-42f1-48f9-81fc-b7975c2c9446&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;Operation=NoScript&#8221; mce_HREF=&#8221;http://ws.amazon.ca/widgets/q?ServiceVersion=20070822&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;MarketPlace=CA&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;ID=V20070822%2FCA%2Firrellife-20%2F8001%2F376374cb-42f1-48f9-81fc-b7975c2c9446&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;Operation=NoScript&#8221;&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;Amazon.ca Widgets&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/A&amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;</noscript></p>
<p><strong>Here is his list:</strong></p>
<h5>Myth #1</h5>
<p>It is only the traditional mainline         churches that have large numbers of leavers. While it is         true that people are leaving the traditional churches people are also leaving evangelical,         charismatic and Pentecostal churches.</p>
<h5>Myth #2</h5>
<p>The people who leave are young adults, people on the         fringe of our churches, and people who have not been in the         church for very long.</p>
<p><span id="more-1126"></span></p>
<h5>Myth #3</h5>
<p>Those with children are less likely to leave.</p>
<h5>Myth #4</h5>
<p>If Mom and Dad go to church, their         children will grow up to be churchgoers too.</p>
<h5>Myth #5</h5>
<p>The people who leave lack commitment.</p>
<h5>Myth #6</h5>
<p>Leavers don&#8217;t have an adequate grounding in the         faith.</p>
<h5>Myth #7</h5>
<p>They leave because of the increased pressure on people&#8217;s         time today.</p>
<h5>Myth #8</h5>
<p>They leave because of personal issues and disagreements         with church leaders.</p>
<h5>Myth #9</h5>
<p>They&#8217;ll be coming back.</p>
<h5>Myth #10</h5>
<p>They are backsliding and giving away their faith.</p>
<p>Read Alan Jamieson&#8217;s original article <a href="http://batteredsheep.com/myths.html#1" target="_blank">here</a>.</p>
<p>I like this list for two reasons: 1) Alan has done a lot of research in this area and these myths are actually well-documented (see original post) and therefore, this list is anything but arbitrary; and, 2) I know of &#8220;church leavers&#8221; who have been hurt deeply and ostracized because their church &#8220;friends&#8221; actually believed many of these myths.</p>
<p>I hope that pastors and denominational leaders are listening!</p>
<p>Were any of these myths particularly enlightening for you?</p>
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		<slash:comments>5735</slash:comments>
		</item>
		<item>
		<title>An Open Letter to Julia Duin, author of &#8220;Quitting Church&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/an-open-letter-to-julia-duin-author-of-quitting-church</link>
		<comments>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/an-open-letter-to-julia-duin-author-of-quitting-church#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 03:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>iCanuck</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church as the people of god]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[julia duin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quitting church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irreligiouslife.wordpress.com/?p=314</guid>
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			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[tip] This post has been updated.  The original (and &#8220;inferior&#8221; one) can be found <a href="http://preview.tinyurl.com/cmsxxw" target="_blank">here</a>. [/tip]</p>
<p>Julia, I have finished reading your book called <a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0801068231?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=irrellife-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=15121&amp;creative=330641&amp;creativeASIN=0801068231">Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing And What To Do About It</a><img style="border:none!important;margin:0!important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.ca/e/ir?t=irrellife-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=15&amp;a=0801068231" border="0" alt="" width="1" height="1" />.  I enjoyed reading the book and found myself nodding in agreement on every page.  At first, I was a little disappointed because I didn&#8217;t feel that you had added much to the conversation.   It seemed that a lot of your material was based on surveys and research that were well known and readily available to all of us already.    However, after re-reading the book I realize that was not a fair assessment.  Although some of your material did come from these surveys, it is helpful to have it all summarized here in one place.</p>
<p><span id="more-314"></span></p>
<p>Initially, I was hoping that you would give us new information and new insights into <strong>why we are quitting church</strong>.  The reasons you gave for people quitting church were not necessarily new (church is irrelevant, there is no community, mediocre teaching/preaching, denominationalism, immoral leaders, etc.)  These reasons are not new.  However, the sections in chapter 6 and 8 on reasons why women and singles are quitting church were enlightening for me.</p>
<p>You showed me that churches do even less for <strong><em>single people</em></strong>, and <em><strong>single mothers</strong></em> who are struggling to put food on the table each evening. I appreciated your viewpoint on these issues and I feel bad for not being more sympathetic to these groups of people.  Your experiences and perspective on this matter is something that more church leaders need to hear</p>
<p>There are other sections in your book that I was hoping you would have expanded.  You did a lot of interviews with different church leaders but we only read small portions of your interviews in the book.  I would have loved to hear more from your interview with Brian McLaren of John Eldredge, for example.     I think material from those kinds of interviews would help advance the conversation that many of us are having about quitting church. <strong> Do you have more of these interviews that we can read elsewhere? </strong></p>
<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 114px"><a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0801068231?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=irrellife-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=15121&amp;creative=330641&amp;creativeASIN=0801068231"><img src="http://irreligiouslife.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/quit.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="104" height="160" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Quitting Church</p></div>
<p>I also got the impression from your book that you are trying to say that if the church would simply become more relevant, more aware of the different needs in the congregation etc. then people would not quit and those who have left would return.   If the church could just shape up and address the particular needs of the single crowd, the single mothers, and address the tough issues from the pulpit, then everything would be fine and dandy.  These are all fair criticisms of the church but there are others who are saying that even if the church fixed all these problems, it still would not matter.</p>
<p>For some, <em>the institution of the church itself is the problem</em>.  It is not simply a matter of working on the inside to fix the problems.  These people put emphasis on the church as the people of God.  The church is not the institution, it is not the building and it is not what someone does on Sunday. Of course you would be hard pressed to find a church leader who would disagree with that, but there are some who leave church precisely because there is TOO much emphasis placed on the institution, the building and on Sunday.  They would much rather spend time with other believers in smaller communities throughout the week then with large numbers of people once a week. <strong> I think many people quit church in order to find church.</strong></p>
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		<title>John Eldredge: Quit Church Because Sick of Pretending</title>
		<link>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/john-eldredge-quit-church-because-sick-of-pretending</link>
		<comments>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/john-eldredge-quit-church-because-sick-of-pretending#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Nov 2008 16:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>iCanuck</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[beliefnet.com]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[foo fighters]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Francis Schaeffer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Eldredge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[julia duin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quitting church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[u2]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irreligiouslife.wordpress.com/?p=312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Admittedly, I don&#8217;t know much about John Eldredge except that he was written some popular books and many people I know have said he is their favourite author.  I have read Epic: The Story God Is Telling and enjoyed it, though.  I found out from Julia Duin&#8217;s book (Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.ransomedheart.com/"><img class="alignright size-full wp-image-333" style="border:0 none;margin:10px;" title="53" src="http://irreligiouslife.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/53.jpg" alt="53" width="150" height="190" /></a>Admittedly, I don&#8217;t know much about <a href="http://www.ransomedheart.com/" target="_blank">John Eldredge</a> except that he was written some popular books and many people I know have said he is their favourite author.  I have read <a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0785288783?ie=UTF8&#038;tag=irrellife-20&#038;linkCode=as2&#038;camp=15121&#038;creative=330641&#038;creativeASIN=0785288783">Epic: The Story God Is Telling</a><img src="http://www.assoc-amazon.ca/e/ir?t=irrellife-20&#038;l=as2&#038;o=15&#038;a=0785288783" width="1" height="1" border="0" alt="" style="border:none !important; margin:0px !important;" /><br />
and enjoyed it, though.  I found out from Julia Duin&#8217;s book (<a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0801068231?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=irrellife-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=15121&amp;creative=330641&amp;creativeASIN=0801068231">Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing And What To Do About It</a><img style="border:none!important;margin:0!important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.ca/e/ir?t=irrellife-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=15&amp;a=0801068231" border="0" alt="" width="1" height="1" />) that John Eldredge quit attending church.  For some reason, I found that surprising.  (Perhaps this is the &#8220;mature Christian&#8221; who left the institutional church that was referred to <a href="http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=258">here</a>.)  Here is what he said in <a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2007/09/Why-Men-Dont-Like-Church.aspx" target="_blank">an interview for Beliefnet.com</a> as reported by Julia Duin on page 169 of her book.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve come to appreciate how utterly numbing most church experience is.  Most people&#8217;s church experience amounts to about an hour a week.  It&#8217;s the Sunday service.  They are passive participants for the most part.  They listen to a message, they hear some songs, some music, all in an attempt to sort of inspire and courage.  It is mind-numbing, most of it.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>So yes, I took a year off of church.  Just because I was so sick of pretending.  I was faking it; that was the problem.  I was faking a holiness I didn&#8217;t have, I was faking an enthusiasm that frankly wasn&#8217;t there, and I said, &#8220;I can&#8217;t do that.  It&#8217;s dishonest.&#8221; (<a href="http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christianity/2007/09/Why-Men-Dont-Like-Church.aspx">These interviews can be found here.</a>)</p></blockquote>
<p>(This last comment reminds of two songs which talk about talking one way and acting another way: <a href="http://www.mtvmusic.com/video/?id=169364" target="_blank">The Pretender by the Foo Fighters</a><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKhnmUdmz74" target="_blank"> </a>and <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHa1ThS9avA" target="_blank">Acrobat by U2</a>)</p>
<p>According to Julia, John Eldredge and his family left the established church a decade ago and &#8220;never looked back.&#8221;  He told Julia that it is good to take time off church &#8220;to find the real thing&#8221;.  He went on to tell her that church does meet the need of newer Christians but for the most part &#8220;they are not bringing people into a genuine encounter with God.&#8221;</p>
<p>Finally, John Eldredge says, &#8220;The accusation is that we are backsliding, but the fact is, we are living a richer Christian experience than ever. <a href="http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=258"> It&#8217;s mature Christians who have opted out of church.</a>&#8221;</p>
<p>. . . WOW! . . .</p>
<p>So, my question today is . . . for those who have opted out of church, do you feel you are living a richer Christian experience than ever (as John Eldredge) or have you had a different experience?  Leave your comments below.</p>
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		<item>
		<title>Mature Christians Should Leave the Institutional Church?</title>
		<link>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/mature-christians-should-leave-the-institutional-church</link>
		<comments>http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/mature-christians-should-leave-the-institutional-church#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>iCanuck</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church community]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[community in church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[evangelical epidemic]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[george barna]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[house church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[irrelevant church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[julia duin]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[leaving the church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[quitting church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[women leaving the church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://irreligiouslife.wordpress.com/?p=258</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There is a new book that might make it to Books That Influence This Blog.   I have ordered it from Amazon and I am excited to start reading it.  The book is Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing And What To Do About It Julia Duin is the religion editor for The Washington Times [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a new book that might make it to Books That Influence This Blog.   I have ordered it from Amazon and I am excited to start reading it.  The book is <a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0801068231?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=irrellife-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=15121&amp;creative=330641&amp;creativeASIN=0801068231">Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing And What To Do About It</a><img style="border:none!important;margin:0!important;" src="http://www.assoc-amazon.ca/e/ir?t=irrellife-20&amp;l=as2&amp;o=15&amp;a=0801068231" border="0" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></p>
<div class="wp-caption alignright" style="width: 114px"><a href="http://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/0801068231?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=irrellife-20&amp;linkCode=as2&amp;camp=15121&amp;creative=330641&amp;creativeASIN=0801068231"><img src="http://irreligiouslife.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/quit.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="104" height="160" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Quitting Church</p></div>
<p>Julia Duin is the religion editor for <em>The Washington Times </em>and a self-described born-again Christian (is that possible even possible? . . . ha ha).</p>
<p>Here is the product description from Amazon:</p>
<blockquote><p>Duin brings two kinds of experiences to bear in this engaging little jeremiad: as religion editor for the <em>Washington Times</em>, she is in her element marshaling statistics, interviewing authors and clergy, and commenting on the trend of faithful evangelicals who increasingly vote with their feet by leaving their churches. But she&#8217;s also a self-described born-again evangelical herself, coping with the personal pain of not having a viable and permanent church home. Drawing heavily on research by pollster George Barna, Duin diagnoses a widespread dissatisfaction among evangelicals, who feel their churches do a decent job with new Christians but fall far short with mature believers. In particular, Duin shows, women and singles are leaving churches in ever-greater numbers. (As a single woman herself, she discusses her own experiences with being marginalized while successfully evoking a larger context through research and polls.) Duin has some prescriptions to help with these problems, including meatier sermons that address real issues; house churches and micro-churches that foster more genuine community; and even in-church matchmaking services to help singles who want to find a mate.</p></blockquote>
<p>At the <a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122031237268288821.html" target="_blank">Wall Street Journal</a>, Terry Eastland has written a review where he comments that Julia Duin calls church quitting an epidemic among evangelicals. He also writes:</p>
<blockquote><p>She reports, among other things: a lack of a feeling of community among church members, inducing loneliness and boredom; church teaching that fails to go beyond the basics of the faith or to reach members grappling with suffering or unanswered prayer; pastors who are either out of touch with their parishioners or themselves unhappy, or who fail to shepherd their flocks, or who are caught up in scandal, or who try to control the lives of church members in a high-handed way. She claims that many churches have &#8220;inefficient leadership models&#8221; and that many, preoccupied with the care of families, neglect single people.</p></blockquote>
<p>A &#8220;lack of feeling of community?&#8221; . . . &#8220;loneliness?&#8221;. . .  &#8220;boredom?&#8221; . . .  &#8220;out of touch?&#8221; . . .  &#8220;scandal?&#8221; . . . &#8220;inefficient leadership models?&#8221;  Really?  Come on now, not in OUR churches . . . really?  (sarcasm intended)</p>
<p>Apparently, Julia writes about &#8220;a best-selling evangelical author quitting his church and arguing that leaving the institutional church is something that &#8220;mature Christians&#8221; should do.&#8221;  Who is that?  Does anyone know? I really want to know who this &#8220;best-selling evangelical author&#8221; who quit his church was.  If you know, tell me.   (Of course, I can always wait to read the book but if you tell me that I don&#8217;t have to wait.)  (OK, since posting this originally, I believe I have found the answer to that question.  <a href="http://irreligiouslife.wordpress.com/2008/11/05/john-eldredge-quit-church-because-sick-of-pretending/" target="_self">See here.</a>)</p>
<p>My wife and I are church planters working in Japan, but currently residing in Canada until we go back to Japan in 2009.  And so, I am totally excited to read this book &#8211; not because I want more ammo to bash the institutional but because books like these are valuable resources for us.</p>
<p>Can&#8217;t wait for the next Amazon box to arrive on my porch!</p>
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