Comments on: Is This the Future of Preaching? http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching closing the gap between Jesus Christ and the church Fri, 03 Sep 2010 16:04:08 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.1 hourly 1 By: Al http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-623 Al Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:59:22 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-623 I tend to agree with those who see that 'church' isn't so much about hearing as being and doing. I think we need a lot more opportunity to discuss and apply than we do to just listen to one person's understanding/theology. I've been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and posted something recently. http://al-muses.blogspot.com/2009/08/rant-about-church-and-theology.html I'm actually looking for something less 'churchy' and more 'community' nearby, but haven't been able to blend where I think God is aiming me with what I see around me. I tend to agree with those who see that ‘church’ isn’t so much about hearing as being and doing. I think we need a lot more opportunity to discuss and apply than we do to just listen to one person’s understanding/theology. I’ve been thinking about this quite a bit lately, and posted something recently. http://al-muses.blogspot.com/2009/08/rant-about-church-and-theology.html
I’m actually looking for something less ‘churchy’ and more ‘community’ nearby, but haven’t been able to blend where I think God is aiming me with what I see around me.

]]> By: tommyab http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-605 tommyab Thu, 06 Aug 2009 03:44:19 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-605 what you are saying Tim is really encouraging . Thanks ! I would compare our situation to the situation that the christians jews were living in early church. It is to them that the epistle to Hebrews was first sent. Their jewish heritage was so rich et full of beauty. Their traditions were so cherished and lovable. They were pride about it, and i would say they were right to be. They felt confortable and secure in it. (we read in Philippians 3 Paul's testimony about his jewish heritage,... it is quite moving when we understand what it means to a jew to be a jew...) The author of Hebrew have to demonstrate that Christ is better (Heb 7:22), is THE glorious one (1:1-6), more lovable, more confortable(4:16), more beautiful, greater than all the priests (5:5) and more important than Moses himself (3:3). An entire chapter is about faith. because this is the only way we can follow Christ. We should abandon our institutionnal christianity heritage as the the first century jewish christians had to leave their traditions. "... I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord" Phil 3 what you are saying Tim is really encouraging . Thanks !

I would compare our situation to the situation that the christians jews were living in early church. It is to them that the epistle to Hebrews was first sent. Their jewish heritage was so rich et full of beauty. Their traditions were so cherished and lovable. They were pride about it, and i would say they were right to be. They felt confortable and secure in it. (we read in Philippians 3 Paul’s testimony about his jewish heritage,… it is quite moving when we understand what it means to a jew to be a jew…)

The author of Hebrew have to demonstrate that Christ is better (Heb 7:22), is THE glorious one (1:1-6), more lovable, more confortable(4:16), more beautiful, greater than all the priests (5:5) and more important than Moses himself (3:3).

An entire chapter is about faith. because this is the only way we can follow Christ.

We should abandon our institutionnal christianity heritage as the the first century jewish christians had to leave their traditions. “… I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord” Phil 3

]]> By: Tim http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-603 Tim Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:59:50 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-603 "Why are we so sermon focused anyway"? Bad traditions kept in place by comfort zone protections that lure away from taking up the cross. I have funded and heard too many sermons as well. God's design for two-way, mutual communication of truth is far better, but harder work for all involved. It requires walking by faith. Sitting in a pew only requires walking by sight. "Who's going to mentor me..."? And who will you mentor as well? Ask God to direct you to some brothers who see the failure of the old system and are ready for God's design. I asked God for this and He delivered, with some perseverance on my part. “Why are we so sermon focused anyway”? Bad traditions kept in place by comfort zone protections that lure away from taking up the cross. I have funded and heard too many sermons as well. God’s design for two-way, mutual communication of truth is far better, but harder work for all involved. It requires walking by faith. Sitting in a pew only requires walking by sight.
“Who’s going to mentor me…”? And who will you mentor as well? Ask God to direct you to some brothers who see the failure of the old system and are ready for God’s design. I asked God for this and He delivered, with some perseverance on my part.

]]> By: Ordinary Guy http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-602 Ordinary Guy Thu, 06 Aug 2009 01:47:34 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-602 Well, I don't go to church. I used to, but stopped about a year and a half ago. I miss the friendship (fellowship) the most. Sure, I love a good sermon, just like I love a good motivational speaker. I've just discovered, that motivation doesn't last too long once you get outside the door. It fades too quickly. True discipleship is what I desire. So far as sermons on the internet, sure, go for it. We're all at different stages, and eat different food. (Some like sermon food, some reading the word, some fellowship, etc, but the important thing is all food should striengthen our Spirit.) And, so far as the fellowship I'm missing...sad to say, if the friendships I had in church were "real" we would still be friends today wouldn't we? Well, I don’t go to church. I used to, but stopped about a year and a half ago. I miss the friendship (fellowship) the most. Sure, I love a good sermon, just like I love a good motivational speaker. I’ve just discovered, that motivation doesn’t last too long once you get outside the door. It fades too quickly. True discipleship is what I desire. So far as sermons on the internet, sure, go for it. We’re all at different stages, and eat different food. (Some like sermon food, some reading the word, some fellowship, etc, but the important thing is all food should striengthen our Spirit.)

And, so far as the fellowship I’m missing…sad to say, if the friendships I had in church were “real” we would still be friends today wouldn’t we?

]]> By: steve http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-595 steve Wed, 05 Aug 2009 05:49:53 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-595 Why are we so sermon focused anyway. Who said church has to be all about sermons. I've had enough sermons to last me a lifetime. Who's going to mentor me into actually living it out. If only church focused on community instead of buildings, budgets, and unsaid rules and expectations. Why are we so sermon focused anyway. Who said church has to be all about sermons. I’ve had enough sermons to last me a lifetime. Who’s going to mentor me into actually living it out. If only church focused on community instead of buildings, budgets, and unsaid rules and expectations.

]]> By: Tim http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-591 Tim Tue, 04 Aug 2009 01:24:58 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-591 Why do so many pastors conferences and magazines talk about pastor burn out so often? Why do pastors run off to pastors conferences to "be fed and motivated", unable to learn and grow from the saints with whom the are partners? It's because systemically, the clergy system sets up a very surface, professionally distant dynamic that is mostly the rule. This is what I was taught by expert preachers of our day in preacher school. It was my first clue that the system is corrupted from God's design. Can 1 man have a mutually dynamic relationship with 25 men, with 50 men, with a thousand? No, he cannot. The surveys show that the pastors discipleship ministry is the lowest time priority in the pastors schedule. For sure, there is a lot of hand shaking, joking, and other social graces going on with regularity. But not mutual building relationships. Thus the need to go outside the church for encouragement and emotional support from men he sees once or twice a year. The old metaphor of the intelligent shepherd relationship with the spiritually dumb dependent sheep giving basis for no mutuality is a bogus idea not taught by the scriptures. Paul had complete confidence that the Ephesian elders (businessmen) could grow to do ministry just like him Acts 20. Paul was looking for 3 generations of reproduction of his ministry - Paul -> Timothy -> faithful men -> others. 2 Tim. 2:1,2 . The institutional church is systematized in perpetual dependency that arises from shallow relationships built into the system. How can a relationship grow in mutuality when the most focused on event in church life is dominated by one-way communication? Why do so many pastors conferences and magazines talk about pastor burn out so often? Why do pastors run off to pastors conferences to “be fed and motivated”, unable to learn and grow from the saints with whom the are partners?
It’s because systemically, the clergy system sets up a very surface, professionally distant dynamic that is mostly the rule. This is what I was taught by expert preachers of our day in preacher school. It was my first clue that the system is corrupted from God’s design. Can 1 man have a mutually dynamic relationship with 25 men, with 50 men, with a thousand? No, he cannot. The surveys show that the pastors discipleship ministry is the lowest time priority in the pastors schedule. For sure, there is a lot of hand shaking, joking, and other social graces going on with regularity. But not mutual building relationships. Thus the need to go outside the church for encouragement and emotional support from men he sees once or twice a year. The old metaphor of the intelligent shepherd relationship with the spiritually dumb dependent sheep giving basis for no mutuality is a bogus idea not taught by the scriptures. Paul had complete confidence that the Ephesian elders (businessmen) could grow to do ministry just like him Acts 20. Paul was looking for 3 generations of reproduction of his ministry – Paul -> Timothy -> faithful men -> others. 2 Tim. 2:1,2 . The institutional church is systematized in perpetual dependency that arises from shallow relationships built into the system. How can a relationship grow in mutuality when the most focused on event in church life is dominated by one-way communication?

]]> By: Whitey http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-573 Whitey Sat, 25 Jul 2009 13:39:34 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-573 The one thing lacking from these preaching videos, as has been touched on, is relationship. A pastor knows his congregation and the particular needs they and the community are dealing with. And... we "go to church" to meet with one another, not just hear a message and go home. Hopefully it's more than just a social meeting, and real community is taking place. But watching church online is not the same. The one thing lacking from these preaching videos, as has been touched on, is relationship. A pastor knows his congregation and the particular needs they and the community are dealing with. And… we “go to church” to meet with one another, not just hear a message and go home. Hopefully it’s more than just a social meeting, and real community is taking place. But watching church online is not the same.

]]> By: Tim http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-557 Tim Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:25:11 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-557 Sorry, I made a significant typo: " In the preaching = lecture by a hired expert system (institutional church), it is NOW more important for believers to hear 500 – 2000 sermons than for those who have never heard the gospel and have no one withing 2 days journey to tell them even once." Sorry, I made a significant typo:
” In the preaching = lecture by a hired expert system (institutional church), it is NOW more important for believers to hear 500 – 2000 sermons than for those who have never heard the gospel and have no one withing 2 days journey to tell them even once.”

]]> By: Tim http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-556 Tim Thu, 23 Jul 2009 21:18:17 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-556 tommy ab & Ian Amen to your key points. After hearing thousands of "sermons" and going to college to be a sermon giver, and many years of struggling to figure out why lecture oriented preaching by a hired expert produces such high levels of lukewarmness and spiritual mediocrity, God has helped me to see that this kind of "preaching" is not at all what God has asked for in His revelation. Scripture is full of "preaching" and teaching, but nowhere is it specified as one-way communication and only by a hired expert. God never communicates with us in one-way communication. He is a two-way communication God. He loves direct, heartfelt feed back. Tradition has locked in most believers minds that preaching is ALWAYS lecturing. Anything else would not be preaching. The deceiver has lured God's people into cannonizing a bogus substitute for God's design. No one else could pull off this huge sucker job. God is full of grace and is able to use this form of preaching in spite of it's corruption, but he longs for His people to figure out the tragedy it produces. In the preaching = lecture by a hired expert system (institutional church), it is not more important for believers to hear 500 - 2000 sermons than for those who have never heard the gospel and have no one withing 2 days journey to tell them even once. The reason I say the system makes this priority a reality is because 75% of the giving is consumed making the pulpit/pew thing happen leaving only 25% or less to devote to reaching all nations. That makes professional sermons for believers every week of their lives 3 times more important. This is a travesty. TV preaching, video preaching, Internet preaching, and pulpit preaching are all the same - a bad substitute for God's design for every-member- proclaiming / preaching. "You ARE a royal priesthood that you may proclaim the glories of Him who called you out of darkness into light." It doesn't matter how much you like it, how much you have learned, how many people have been saved, etc. Everyone is left short changed when they settle for substitutes of God's design. "The greatest danger is not that we will renounce our faith, but that we will settle for a mediocre version of it." tommy ab & Ian
Amen to your key points.
After hearing thousands of “sermons” and going to college to be a sermon giver, and many years of struggling to figure out why lecture oriented preaching by a hired expert produces such high levels of lukewarmness and spiritual mediocrity, God has helped me to see that this kind of “preaching” is not at all what God has asked for in His revelation. Scripture is full of “preaching” and teaching, but nowhere is it specified as one-way communication and only by a hired expert.

God never communicates with us in one-way communication. He is a two-way communication God. He loves direct, heartfelt feed back.

Tradition has locked in most believers minds that preaching is ALWAYS lecturing. Anything else would not be preaching. The deceiver has lured God’s people into cannonizing a bogus substitute for God’s design. No one else could pull off this huge sucker job.

God is full of grace and is able to use this form of preaching in spite of it’s corruption, but he longs for His people to figure out the tragedy it produces. In the preaching = lecture by a hired expert system (institutional church), it is not more important for believers to hear 500 – 2000 sermons than for those who have never heard the gospel and have no one withing 2 days journey to tell them even once.

The reason I say the system makes this priority a reality is because 75% of the giving is consumed making the pulpit/pew thing happen leaving only 25% or less to devote to reaching all nations. That makes professional sermons for believers every week of their lives 3 times more important. This is a travesty.

TV preaching, video preaching, Internet preaching, and pulpit preaching are all the same – a bad substitute for God’s design for every-member- proclaiming / preaching. “You ARE a royal priesthood that you may proclaim the glories of Him who called you out of darkness into light.”

It doesn’t matter how much you like it, how much you have learned, how many people have been saved, etc. Everyone is left short changed when they settle for substitutes of God’s design. “The greatest danger is not that we will renounce our faith, but that we will settle for a mediocre version of it.”

]]> By: tommy ab http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/is-this-the-future-of-preaching/comment-page-1#comment-553 tommy ab Tue, 21 Jul 2009 04:21:41 +0000 http://www.irreligiouscanuck.com/?p=1646#comment-553 i hope you won't be fooled by confort i hope you won’t be fooled by confort

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