An Open Letter to Julia Duin, author of “Quitting Church”
Julia, I have finished reading your book called Quitting Church: Why The Faithful Are Fleeing And What To Do About It
Initially, I was hoping that you would give us new information and new insights into why we are quitting church. The reasons you gave for people quitting church were not necessarily new (church is irrelevant, there is no community, mediocre teaching/preaching, denominationalism, immoral leaders, etc.) These reasons are not new. However, the sections in chapter 6 and 8 on reasons why women and singles are quitting church were enlightening for me.
You showed me that churches do even less for single people, and single mothers who are struggling to put food on the table each evening. I appreciated your viewpoint on these issues and I feel bad for not being more sympathetic to these groups of people. Your experiences and perspective on this matter is something that more church leaders need to hear
There are other sections in your book that I was hoping you would have expanded. You did a lot of interviews with different church leaders but we only read small portions of your interviews in the book. I would have loved to hear more from your interview with Brian McLaren of John Eldredge, for example. I think material from those kinds of interviews would help advance the conversation that many of us are having about quitting church. Do you have more of these interviews that we can read elsewhere?
Quitting Church
I also got the impression from your book that you are trying to say that if the church would simply become more relevant, more aware of the different needs in the congregation etc. then people would not quit and those who have left would return. If the church could just shape up and address the particular needs of the single crowd, the single mothers, and address the tough issues from the pulpit, then everything would be fine and dandy. These are all fair criticisms of the church but there are others who are saying that even if the church fixed all these problems, it still would not matter.
For some, the institution of the church itself is the problem. It is not simply a matter of working on the inside to fix the problems. These people put emphasis on the church as the people of God. The church is not the institution, it is not the building and it is not what someone does on Sunday. Of course you would be hard pressed to find a church leader who would disagree with that, but there are some who leave church precisely because there is TOO much emphasis placed on the institution, the building and on Sunday. They would much rather spend time with other believers in smaller communities throughout the week then with large numbers of people once a week. I think many people quit church in order to find church.
Comments
Hi Joel – I discovered this blog by accident. Can only give a quick answer right now (am at work) but am not sure it’s correct I’ve said “nothing new.” A lot of these folks, especially the women, have never been quoted by anyone else. You may have read some of these factoids elsewhere but I marshalled them all together in one book (it’s harder than it looks). The chapters on singles, women and charismatics aren’t being said by other folks. The input from Orthodox Christians is not usual either.
But your point that I do not have an answer for the problem – that is true. I was not sure I wanted to totally trash the church by saying the whole institution needs to be trashed because then I’d have to say what there’s out there to replace it. And to be honest, all the current answers to that question (the emergent groups or home churches) have innate problems as well. I just met Alan Jamieson, the New Zealand researcher who has thought through this way more than I have (he is mentioned in my book) and he is staying on as a Baptist pastor in Christchurch because he’s not ready to give up on the church yet.
JULIA
Joel,
Though I am not Julia, I thought I would comment anyway since I stumbled upon your blog and see that you mention that there is a portion of the book that talks about singles.
I am a single, I am also a female pastor and have decided to take a huge leave from church, and ministry – not sure if or when I will return. Though church once for many years was a place of joy, it has become a significant place of injury for me and I am trying to figure out how I feel about God’s Church and my role as a part of it.
As a single ministry leader, I have found that most of the churches who hire staff don’t take into consideration some of the needs, boundaries, etc of the single ministry leader, particularly if that single takes a position in a new geographical area away from familiar friends and family ties. Sometimes they take advantage of the fact that I am single and respect for my person is overlooked.
Anyway, I saw Julia’s book title weeks ago and though that maybe I should read it, but I never did. Now I am sure that I should. Whether it will answer any questions for me or not I am not sure, but perhaps it may provoke thought and help me gain perspective. Thanks for posting.
Hello,
I just stumbled across this website after hearing about Julia Duin’s book on SRN News. One of the things that really struck me was when she said that one of the reasons people leave the church is lack of fellowship or community. Then, after they leave, nobody calls to find out where they have gone. I experienced this same thing exactly. I got to the point where I decided that my family and I would no longer go to church. There was no sense of family at church and nobody seemed to care anyway. I decided that we would stay home and have our own private worship service. We did this for a few weeks before I was convicted. I realized that I was in sin because I had let a “root of bitterness grow up” in me. I became angry at the people at church because they were not meeting my needs. The problem with this, I believe, is threefold.
First, I realized that I was counting on others for that which I can only get from God. The only true sense of joy and fullfillment comes from fellowship with the Lord. Yes, we are called to love one another and fellowship with one another, giving glory to the Lord together. But people, even Christians who love the Lord are still falliable sinners. We’re going to let each other down, this is inevitable.
Second, the other side of the coin is that when others let me down or disappoint me, I am called to have grace and mercy in my heart toward them. I am not called to get angry and resentful only to “take my ball and go home” so to speak. Again, people, even Christians, are not perfect. If I leave the Church I’m at now, then I may as well never darken the door of another church because people are people whereever you go. Nobody will ever find the “perfect” church! (This is not to say that doctrine is not important, but that’s another discussion!)
Third, not only am I called to have more grace, mercy and patience toward others, but I am called to engage in ministries and the work of the Lord with others. I think too many times, people have the mindset of “what can the church do for me?” We could put a spin on J.F.K.’s quote and say “Ask not what your church can do for you ask what you can do in your church as sevice to others and to the Lord.” The bible says “A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly.” I realized that I needed to get up and serve others in my church and in this way, the people of God are brought closer to each other and closer to the Lord.
I believe that after all is said and done the root problem is selfishness and unbelief! May the Lord wake his people from their slumber so that we may learn to die to ourselves and serve the Lord without expecting anything in return!
“Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.”
Roland
Hi….I enjoyed your website (first time here). I was looking for review of Duin’s book since I may read it with a friend of mine. I have been reading in this area and dialoguing about it for a while and trying to put some things into practice as well. My wife and i co-lead a home group and have for 6 years in this church. We have lead home group sin several other churches over the years also. I do agree that I think the small group ministry is extremely important for accountability and fellowship. I have no idea how people develop fellowship apart from small groups in the church. Other than that, i think the church needs to recommit to Jesus. So many of our problems are due to trying to walk with a foot in both worlds. We want to be in the world and also be a Christian. I think the more people actually jump in the more fellowship they find. Let’s face it….we are in a very disengaged society at this point in time. The church reflects that problems also. The good news is….if we can get it together a little better there is tremendous ministry opportunity available to the culture at large due to the fact that so many people are starving for intimacy and, if we can reach out to them, we can help them find the only real answer in Jesus Christ. All is not lost….we just need to get excited about meeting the challenge.
I just finished reading Quitting Church, and it has helped me understand that my husband and I are not the only Christians who haven’t been able to find a church. We left a mega church two years ago after “mega problems” with the leadership. I was terrified of not belonging to a church, We had been told that without the “covering” of the Senior Pastor of this church, we would be vulnerable to all bad things. So began two years of visiting churches. It has been a bad trip. We could write a book. The last two churches were the worst. One was totally out there with their biggest desire was to be drunk in the Spirit as often as possible with angel worship thrown in. The other was the opposite and seemed to guard the door to keep out the Spirit. Now we have stayed home for two weeks and started our own services on Sunday. It is much better for us. I don’t know if we will ever belong to a church again. It is too bad because we have so much to offer. Our ministry will not be in the church but outside of it.
I came across a copy of “Quitting Church” while browsing at a local book store in the mall. Chapter 5 about singles caught my attention. I found it incredible how “family values” churches place barriers or are structured to prevent singles in finding a life partner. Some examples – women are viewed as a source of temptation, singles exist in the Church to serve the married or to provide free labor, questions about being single are considered “rebellion,” it’s better to be single to serve God, programs in the church are all centered around “family.” Singles that are quitting church had faithfully attended for years and now conclude that the message is loud and clear the Church is not for singles.
Roland puts it well..ask not what your church can do for you…
I lived in Texas for 10 years and have visited a local Megachurch (w/JumboTron Performances that try to pass for worship). I ask which bible are we reading if we ask religion to entertain us? Moses came back from the Mountain with God’s ten commandments…but the Israelites were busy “entertaining” themselves while their leader was busy elsewhere. Sound familiar?
Visiting a bookstore yesterday, I wondered why all the books under the heading “Relationship” actually talked about sex and sexual techniques. Am I the only one who sees the irony in this? Have we as a culture lost our sense of relationship? Reading Ms. Duin’s 1st 3 chapters I was struck by the void of discussion about relationship with the Divine God and with God’s people. Relationship is about give and take (not just our expectations) — and about COMMUNITY (which brings us back to JFK’s famous quote about what you can do for your country/community).
The celebration of the Word and the Eucharist is rich in tradition, not only are we nourished…but we re-enact the Hebrew tradition of the covenant, the contract between God and the Chosen Ones. What does the word “sacrifice” mean in today’s world? Obviously not as much as the flesh and blood meaning in the Old and New Testaments. While many families “sacrifice” to provide Christian education and Church support (in time, treasure and talent) — some of us cannot even sacrifice getting out of bed on Sunday morning. Remember that Jesus asked the disciples to stay awake with him in the garden of Gethsemane? Church leaders are human, too, then and now.
The Charismatic Movement of the 70’s did not invent miracles, or heavenly bliss…nor do we have to look farther than St. Teresa of Avila, or the early desert fathers/mothers to see that mysticism is part of the Church’s rich tradition.
I have watched vocations in the Catholic Church diminish since the 1960’s, it did not start there. I do not doubt that many of us are disillusioned, why else would we quit our families, our neighborhood, our marriage, our church?
I say, get over it! We are the Church — how can we quit who we are? That is why so many stories in the Bible tell of God’s faithfulness, and His willingness to call us back to His Flock (family, community, church).
We all need to do a better job, don’t we? And bring a few friends with you when you come back!! He left the Light ON!
Mary, you are definitely not alone. And, if certain Christian leaders are correct you will be in the majority in the next decade or so. You may just be ahead of your time.
Bill, well said! I just finished reading about the church’s need to “recommit to Jesus” and will post my reflections on it soon. The book is called ReJesus. None of the Christian bookstores I went to in Buffalo or even here north of the border had so I had to order it online. Great book, very positive, and Jesus-centred!
Disappointed, I am glad that I have encouraged you to read Julia’s book. Christian leaders need to pay heed to her advice about singles and about women in church. Did you end up reading the book yet?
Julia, first of all I need to apologize to you. I am very, very, very sorry that I did not respond to you sooner. It has been w-a-y too long. I took a much needed break from my blog for several months and recently started it up again and I did not reply to you when I should have. I am sorry.
Soon after reading your book, a friend of mine was over and saw the book. He borrowed the book and then lent it to his wife and they both read it as well. Now, I have the book in my hands and I am leafing through it again.
This time as I look through your book, the chapters that resonate with me are different than those when I first read the book. My attitude, my sensitivity, my demeanor towards the institutional church has matured somewhat over the last few months and so when I read books, like yours, about the pitfalls of the church today I have slightly different reactions now.
You are right that a lot of the people that are quoted here have not been quoted elsewhere. I was being much too strong in using the words, “nothing new.” (Now, as I look back I think that was more of a reflection of my angst toward the church and my desire to add more ammunition to my arsenal of anti-church rhetoric.)
For example, today I came across the section on “Church as a Time Waster” where you mentioned Michael Lindsay’s work on influential and prestigious evangelicals who have lost their interest in church because they consider it a waste of time. That was a new resource for me that I had not come across elsewhere and I am noticing more as I keep leafing through the book.
I also want to reiterate here that your work on women and singles (Chapter 5 “The Loneliest Number” and Chapter 8 “The Other Sex”) is a must read for church leaders today.
So, Julia I regret saying that there was “nothing new” in your book. I have been re-evaluating and re-thinking my attitude toward church and I have decided that I really want to be helpful. There IS a gap between Jesus Christ and the church today and I am trying to stand in that gap in a way that is helpful for both those who work for the church and for those who are quitting church.
You mentioned Alan Jamieson in your comment above. I have also recently me others like Alan who are sympathetic to the problems yet continue on as pastors in their churches. It is people like these who help me to think through these issues with a more balanced perspective. I pray that I can only stay balanced so as to contribute to, rather than take away from the church today.
After I finish this reply to your comment, I am planning to update the post to include these “newer” observations and reflections.
Sorry to be so late for the party, but I have only just read the book.
Reading your open letter Joel, you do address some of the important things Julia did NOT address.
That being said, it seems to me that the problem within the system man ‘creates’ and then calls ‘church’ , remain established on fault lines that will eventually give way. There are usually trails of devastated folk behind in the wake, while others simply move on to the next glittering image, thinking that is finally the answer.
I have been part of the a church system for years and still attend a church from time to time but I will never take on membersip because membership in Christs body is not institutional and never has been…even in a house group.
People within denomintions are very suspicious of christian non -members and I am constantly challenged by the system for not officially ‘joining’ them. People like me are viewed as rebellious by church leaders, therefore I try not to say too much openly.
Thank you for this site I shall enjoy perusing.
I wish, like Julia, there were such a thing as a ‘decent church’ .
I find that trying to live like a decent Christian takes enough time without being active making coffee for after church and going on a rota to teach sunday school so that people think I am ’serving appropriately’.
Church is Jesus…nothing more nothing less.
The church only exists because of Christianity and not the other way round.
Enjoyed reading the comments and seeing that others no longer desire to be in bondage to **the church of man.**
In my experience…
People are NOT quitting “The Church of God” aka = “The Body of Christ.”
People are quitting the 501 (c) 3, non-profit, tax deductible, Religious Corporation.
Should we call a Corporation – “The Church of God?” AAARRRGGGHH!!!
Doesn’t the Bible warn us about;
*The commandments of men?
*The doctrines of men?
*The philosophies of men?
*The traditions of men,
that make the Word of God of “non effect?”
Mark 7:13 KJV – Making the word of God of “none effect” through your tradition…
Mark 7:13 ASV – Making “void” the word of God by your tradition…
Mark 7:13 NIV – Thus you “nullify” the word of God by your tradition…
A simple word like “church.”
What do most people **Today** think that means.
Ask someone, believer or non-believer, to describe, explain or point to “church.”
1 – Building with a steeple? — Is that in the Bible?
2 – Pastor – in a Pulpit – Preaching – to People – in Pews? — Is that in the Bible?
That’s what the world thinks, the believer and the unbeliever, isn’t it?
Isn’t that what our so called “Church planting” has accomplished
with four buildings on four corners in a lot of local towns?
And passing the plate at every meeting?
Haven’t we deceived the people we’re supposed to be reaching out to?
How many will know and understand that they can
become “the ekklesia of God.” The called out one’s of God.
How many will know that “The Church of God”
“The ekklesia, the called out one’s of God” are;
Kings and preist’s unto God.
The Bride of Christ.
Servants of Christ.
Sons of God.
Disciples of Christ.
Ambassadors of Christ.
Haven’t we deceived them by telling them the building is the church?
And we have to give money to God so He can keep His building in good order?
When all the time “you are” the ekklesia of God.
The habitation of God. The house of God.
God doesn’t dwell in temples built with the hands of men.
Haven’t they missed the awesomeness of God,
The beauty of “His Church,” “His Body.” How we all become “ONE” in Him?
Neither bond nor free, neither male nor female,
Neither Emergent nor Traditional nor Pentecostal nor Baptist.
Neither Complementarinism nor Egalitarianism.
Neither Denominationalism nor Non- denominationalism.
All obeying Jesus. All following and learning from Jesus, as “ONE” new man.
Jesus… My Lord and my God…